Engaged Equines

22/06/2025

21/06/2025

𝐃𝐀𝐘 𝐎𝐍𝐄 𝐚𝐭 𝐦𝐲 𝐐𝐋𝐃 𝐄𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐌𝐢𝐧𝐝 & 𝐌𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐂𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐜…

The horses were very appreciative of the brand new sand pit at Strong Stable Seat headquarters!

Today was dedicated to brain training and gaining an understanding of how intertwined mental and physical balance truly is.

We had a great variety of horses in age, discipline and experience level.

No matter what you do with your horse building a positive connection to your guidance and any requests you make, is paramount to keeping them motivated and willing and in avoiding resistance or negative behaviours.

We also explored building confidence rather than training for control and simple obedience and the positive influence of this on consistency, reliability and predictability in training.

By teaching our horses how to balance their own mind and body we give them tools that not only benefit our training but benefit them in their day to day lives.

21/06/2025

We're very excited and all ready for our Mind & Movement Clinic with with Katrina Parks.
Perfect Qld weather for our visiting Victorian trainer.

15/06/2025

🧡 “𝐌𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐥 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐜𝐚𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐩𝐡𝐲𝐬𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲, 𝐩𝐡𝐲𝐬𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 𝐜𝐚𝐮𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐥 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲.” 🧡

This is one of the first concepts I teach, as there’s no getting around it.

Everything runs on the same central nervous system and it takes a careful balance of training to develop a calm, capable and confident horse.

I’ll be diving into the how and why next weekend with my Queensland peeps at my Equine Mind & Movement Clinic! 🤗

11/06/2025

🧡 ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE? 🧡

Connection and relationship building are becoming a much bigger priority in horsemanship, a huge step forward in acknowledging that there is more to training than just obedience.

But is it enough?

I loved my first horse with everything I had, I worked two jobs, alongside going to college, to pay for her and never skipped a night with her, no matter how late. I wouldn’t have done anything intentional to harm her in any way, I meticulously made up her stable every night making sure each piece of straw was in its place, I saved up to buy her matching saddle pads, buckets, brushes and rugs. I groomed her until she was spotless, oiled her hooves every night and sat with her while she ate dinner.

But there are plenty of things I would do differently if I had the chance, particularly around the way I trained, my expectations of her and the way I interpreted her behaviour.
She was known for being extremely hot, she had bucked and bolted with her previous owner, but back then it didn’t faze me, I was able to just ‘ride her through it’ and I attributed it to her being ‘sassy’ and ‘mare-ish’.
She didn’t know how to hold herself in a frame and was probably too weak to, so I used training aids to get her ‘round’.
Today my perspective would be very different.

We really owe it to our horses to better understand them, to educate ourselves, upskill and expand our knowledge. Just because things have been done a certain way for a long time doesn’t make them right, and without science, evolution and a growth mindset we wouldn’t have many of the creature comforts or simple things we take for granted that make our lives easier every day.

The first step to a good partnership with a horse is definitely connection, since this builds the trust needed to take and follow direction, HOWEVER teaching them to manage their own mind and body is paramount to creating confidence and maintaining motivation.

In my opinion connection and self confidence are both needed in equal measure for a well rounded, strong partnership.

𝐈𝐟 𝐲𝐨𝐮’𝐫𝐞 𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐝𝐲 𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐚𝐤𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐢𝐫𝐬𝐭 𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐩 𝐭𝐨 𝐛𝐞𝐭𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐮𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐞𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐭𝐧𝐞𝐫 𝐀𝐍𝐃 𝐡𝐞𝐥𝐩𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐦 𝐟𝐮𝐥𝐟𝐢𝐥 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐥…

…𝐣𝐨𝐢𝐧 𝐦𝐞 𝐚𝐭 𝐦𝐲 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 & 𝐂𝐨𝐧𝐟𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐂𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐜, 𝐉𝐮𝐥𝐲 𝟔𝐭𝐡, 𝐍𝐚𝐫 𝐍𝐚𝐫 𝐆𝐨𝐨𝐧 𝐕𝐈𝐂

Let me know if you want the details!

09/06/2025

🐴 Want to know WHY your horse does what they do?

🐴 Want to stop the constant setbacks and resistance in your training?

🐴 Tired of the spooks & unpredictability?

ʟᴇᴀʀɴ ᴛʜᴇ ᴋᴇʏs ᴛᴏ sᴜᴄᴄᴇssꜰᴜʟ ᴛʀᴀɪɴɪɴɢ! ᴜɴʟᴏᴄᴋ ʏᴏᴜʀ ʜᴏʀsᴇ’s ᴛʀᴜᴇ ᴘᴇʀsᴏɴᴀʟɪᴛʏ ᴀɴᴅ ᴄʀᴇᴀᴛᴇ ᴀ ᴍᴏʀᴇ ᴍᴜᴛᴜᴀʟ ᴘᴀʀᴛɴᴇʀsʜɪᴘ!

✨ 𝐂𝐎𝐍𝐍𝐄𝐂𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍 & 𝐂𝐎𝐍𝐅𝐈𝐃𝐄𝐍𝐂𝐄 𝐂𝐋𝐈𝐍𝐈𝐂
✨ 𝐂𝐚𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐇𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐞 𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 / 𝐄𝐧𝐠𝐚𝐠𝐞𝐝 𝐄𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐬
✨𝐉𝐮𝐥𝐲 𝟔𝐭𝐡, 𝐍𝐚𝐫 𝐍𝐚𝐫 𝐆𝐨𝐨𝐧, 𝐕𝐈𝐂

You will learn:

✅ How to get your horse in a learning frame of mind and make the most of your training sessions.

✅ Identify readiness to learn and know when to put the brakes on!

✅ Accurately read your horse’s body language AND use the information to your advantage.

✅ Create a connection that keeps your horse motivated and willing.

✅ Create a ‘thinker’ not just a ‘doer’ so your horse is able to respond not simply react.

🦄 Stop riding that rollercoaster!

🦄 Stop the spooks and end the explosions!

🦄 Enjoy your time together and have a happy horse!

Katrina has accumulated almost three decades of international experience working with horses of all ages, backgrounds and breeds.

Through years of observation, equine research, rehabilitation and training, Katrina has the ability to effectively read each horse to identify their individual learning style and potential problems in your training journey.

If you’ve been searching for a low pressure learning environment surround by like-minded people this is the perfect opportunity for you and your horse.
In Katrina you will find a supportive and encouraging trainer who believes that each and every one of you has the capacity to improve and succeed.

Event Location: Nar Nar Goon VIC

$347 with horse
$147 without

STRICTLY LIMITED with horse spots!

🌟 CLINIC INCLUDES!! 🌟

2x Theory sessions
2x Practical sessions

PLUS! Morning Tea & Lunch
☕ 🥪🥗

AND all facility fees included!

Let me know if you want more details!

I can’t wait to meet you all, Katrina! 😁

04/06/2025

So you decide you want to run a marathon…you can replace marathon with any type of sporting event, competition, fitness goal or new hobby.

What kind of timeframe do you set for yourself?

If you’ve already achieved a goal, taken part in a sporting event or started a new hobby you’re probably well aware of the steps you took in order to prepare and perform to the best of your ability.

You’re probably also aware of the challenges you faced along the way.

I can guarantee that most of your work wasn’t during the pinnacle but in the weeks, days, hours and minutes spent mentally snd physically preparing.

People are often surprised by the amount of prep time I take during training, whether it be starting under saddle, re educating or bringing back into work, perhaps even in a single session.

Most of this is slow and steady mental and physical preparation and usually the majority is not done under saddle.
When I start prepping for my marathon, I’m not running huge distances daily and I’m not moving at speed - if I do it’s likely I will cause myself an injury, fatigue will set in and my recovery times will be slow.

With a background in equine exercise physiology and rehabilitation I was always aware of how the body worked and developed but I too ignored it for a while when I began training exclusively because with horses we just did what we did and there was a universally accepted timeline.

I began to notice when the most physical (and mental) changes happened, usually right before home time and thought of all I’d asked of the horses before this.
Logically there was no way that they would be able to be adequately prepared to be performing what I’d been expecting.

When a horse isn’t able to reach OUR goal in only a couple of months or even less they might be written off or even labelled as dangerous or difficult. They are also often working above their capabilities which is a good way to kill motivation, create resistance and cause unsoundness.

Everyone wants a confident, capable horse who is willing, motivated and easy to handle but not everyone is prepared to do what it takes to get them there.

𝙅𝙤𝙞𝙣 𝙢𝙚 𝙅𝙪𝙡𝙮 𝟲𝙩𝙝 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙩𝙖𝙠𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙛𝙞𝙧𝙨𝙩 𝙨𝙩𝙚𝙥𝙨 𝙩𝙤 𝙨𝙚𝙩𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙮𝙤𝙪𝙧 𝙝𝙤𝙧𝙨𝙚 𝙪𝙥 𝙛𝙤𝙧 𝙨𝙪𝙘𝙘𝙚𝙨𝙨 𝙞𝙣 𝙢𝙮 𝘾𝙤𝙣𝙣𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 & 𝘾𝙤𝙣𝙛𝙞𝙙𝙚𝙣𝙘𝙚 𝘾𝙡𝙞𝙣𝙞𝙘!!

𝙒𝙚’𝙡𝙡 𝙙𝙞𝙫𝙚 𝙞𝙣 𝙩𝙤 𝙬𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙞𝙩 𝙩𝙖𝙠𝙚𝙨 𝙩𝙤 𝙜𝙚𝙩 𝙮𝙤𝙪𝙧 𝙝𝙤𝙧𝙨𝙚 𝙩𝙤 𝙥𝙚𝙖𝙠 𝙢𝙚𝙣𝙩𝙖𝙡 𝙛𝙞𝙩𝙣𝙚𝙨𝙨 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙝𝙤𝙬 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙩 𝙖𝙛𝙛𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙨 𝙚𝙫𝙚𝙧𝙮 𝙖𝙨𝙥𝙚𝙘𝙩 𝙤𝙛 𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙞𝙣𝙞𝙣𝙜!

Message for more info! 😁

29/05/2025

How well do you function when you’re stressed?

Or tired, nervous or fatigued?

We’re all familiar with what it feels like to be running on fumes, irritable, brain fog, heart pounding, tired muscles and lack of sleep.

Why do we think it would be different for our horses?

If your horse is not well prepared for what is being asked of them, hasn’t been taught to cope with the pressures of a human world or has experienced trauma, there can be many side effects both behavioural and physical.

Asking for anything when your horse is stuck in fight, flight or freeze will either have limited success or quite possibly create more resistance and negative behaviours.

Your horse is not in a space where they can retain or process information or learn well, their bodies will be restricted and try to brace against movement.

The first step to helping your horse is MENTAL FITNESS. Without it your progress will be extremely limited.

🌟 𝗜𝗳 𝘆𝗼𝘂’𝗱 𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝗵𝗲𝗹𝗽 𝘂𝗻𝗱𝗲𝗿𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗻𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴, 𝗮𝘀𝘀𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗶𝗺𝗽𝗿𝗼𝘃𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗵𝗼𝗿𝘀𝗲’𝘀 𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗮𝗹 𝗮𝗴𝗶𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗷𝗼𝗶𝗻 𝗺𝗲 𝗮𝘁 𝗺𝘆 𝗻𝗲𝘅𝘁 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝗻𝗲𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 & 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝗳𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝟭-𝗱𝗮𝘆 𝗚𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗰 𝗝𝘂𝗹𝘆 𝟱𝘁𝗵, 𝗡𝗮𝗿 𝗡𝗮𝗿 𝗚𝗼𝗼𝗻 𝗩𝗜𝗖 🌟

Let me know if you need the details! 😁

25/05/2025

This weekend I ran another of my Posture, Muscle & Movement Clinics and a common question popped up in various contexts.

You’ve probably heard of quality over quantity and less is more but when it comes to horses we tend to feel like more is always better.

Things like,

‘I have to work my horse six days a week else they’re too hot.’

‘I have to lunge my horse before I ride.’

‘If I give my horse time off, they’ll forget what they’ve learned’

‘I need to work my horse for an hour a day six times a week to build more muscle tone.’

If you’re using movement to expel energy or tire your horse out so they’re manageable, it’s highly likely your horse is living in survival mode or permanent fight or flight and could benefit from better regulation skills.

If your horse easily reverts to previous behaviours, you may not be building positive associations with training. Teaching your horse how to better manage their own body control and balance greatly increases their self confidence, teaching your horse more functional movement keeps them comfortable and sound.

Training harder isn’t always the answer, if your horse’s body isn’t gradually prepared for the increased work intensity they may be at risk of injury, your extra time and effort may also not yield the results you’re hoping for if recovery time isn’t taken into account. Muscles need this to develop and grow. The less fitness, the greater the recovery time needed after an intense workout.

Of course, consistency is important but the horses mind and body doesn’t ‘forget’ quality training. If a horse finds an exercise beneficial they will often be willing and motivated to repeat it.

There are so many short and simple options to keep your horse’s mind and body busy, particularly as the days get shorter and winter approaches.

If you’d be interested in a monthly series of useful information and exercises to get the most out of your training comment winter workshops below! ❄️

17/05/2025

🧡 𝐀𝐫𝐞 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐬𝐞𝐭𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐞 𝐮𝐩 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐬𝐮𝐜𝐜𝐞𝐬𝐬…

…𝐨𝐫 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐮𝐫𝐞? 🧡

We often talk about setting our horses up to reach our long term goals, being ridden under saddle, competing or routine handling.

But what about the short term?

𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐨𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐧 𝐝𝐨 𝐰𝐞 𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐞𝐬 𝐟𝐮𝐦𝐛𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐢𝐠𝐮𝐫𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬 𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐨𝐰𝐧?

𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐨𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐧 𝐝𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐲 𝐦𝐚𝐤𝐞 𝐮𝐩 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐦𝐢𝐬𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐦𝐮𝐧𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧?

𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐪𝐮𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐥𝐲 𝐝𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐲 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐠𝐚𝐩𝐬 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐢𝐫 𝐨𝐰𝐧?

Teaching our horses to problem solve and use the tools and skills they’ve been taught is an essential part of the learning process as we work towards self-regulation and self-carriage. Allowing our horses to make small mistakes, giving them space and time to think, adjust or balance.

BUT…

… if they’re ‘not getting it’, that’s our cue to jump in and support, guide or teach. Whether you think your horse should ‘know better’ or not, the simple fact here is that we’re the ones who should pick up the slack.

A great example I see often is a horse on a lunge line who is pulling, pushing, drifting, leaping, bucking, head tossing or rearing, yet it’s common that they continue to be driven or even reprimanded, despite these signs of tension, anxiety, brace, restriction or imbalance.

I’m not a huge fan of the traditional lunge method of the handler static and horse moving as I feel it creates disconnect and shows a lack of partnership. When a horse ‘misbehaves’ the handler is usually waiting for the horse in this situation to fill in the gaps and figure out how to balance, both mentally and physically.

In my opinion, adding pressure rather than diffusing tension might seem to bring instant results but won’t give long-term resolve.

I approach my horses the same way as learning to ride a bike. We don’t simply buy the child a bike, push them down a hill and expect them to stay upright and figure out how to peddle.
We begin with training wheels, this is my ground work, regulation, focus, body control and effective communication.

Next we take off the training wheels, but again, we don’t simply abandon them, we hold the back of the bike while they pedal.
For my horses, I change positions to less micromanagement, but support and guide in-hand. If things don’t go well, fall apart or the horse becomes confused, anxious or frustrated, I come back and revisit the ground concepts.

Eventually we let go of the bike, but we’re still there with words of encouragement or to pick up the pieces if they fall.
I begin to allow the horse to feel through the movements, the shapes and turns.

Can they stay upright and balanced?
Can they maintain steady rhythm?
How long for?

A few brief moments is all we may get to begin but then we jump in, reset, rebalance and try again until we have longer and longer periods of self-management.

This is how we develop real confidence, mental & physical balance, the key to true self-carriage.

𝗝𝗼𝗶𝗻 𝗺𝗲 𝗮𝘁 𝗺𝘆 𝗣𝗼𝘀𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲, 𝗠𝘂𝘀𝗰𝗹𝗲 & 𝗠𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝟭-𝗗𝗮𝘆 𝗚𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗰, 𝗠𝗮𝘆 𝟮𝟰𝘁𝗵, 𝗡𝗮𝗿 𝗡𝗮𝗿 𝗚𝗼𝗼𝗻, 𝗩𝗜𝗖

…and help your horse find the confidence & capability you’re both looking for!

Let me know if you want the details! 😁

11/05/2025

𝐖𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐬𝐞 𝐬𝐚𝐲𝐬 ‘𝐈 𝐜𝐚𝐧’𝐭’… 𝐛𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐞𝐯𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐦.

They either physically can’t or they think they can’t.

What horses allow from us and give to us is incredible but we’ve been conditioned to treat ‘I can’t’ as ‘I won’t’ which drastically changes how we approach the situation.

It encourages us to attach emotions or feelings to an issue without addressing why these feelings or traits appear.

‘They’re just… nervous, worried, hesitant or resistant or even arrogant or stubborn.’

BUT WHY?

No matter what the trait or feeling is, getting to the root of the problem requires understanding why it’s there in the first place.

Forcing acceptance, or pushing through rarely fixes a problem long term or without creating another and risks mental or physical unsoundness, because we still haven’t addressed the reason it’s there.

A capable, confident, fit, motivated, strong and willing horse rarely says I can’t.

🐴…have they been carefully developed physically in a way that encourages more functional movement patterns, strength and flexibility.

If I ask you to do the splits and your range of motion strength or suppleness doesn’t allow it but I force it anyway, you’ll suffer injury.

🐴…are they mentally able to deal with tension or pressure in a more productive way?

Or are they bottling up their emotions until they can’t cope anymore or constantly living in a state of flight or fight?

Facing your biggest fears without causing trauma comes from preparation, not throwing you in at the deep end or forcing you into it.

🐴…are your aids and body language saying the same thing?

Or are you inadvertently blocking your horse from doing the thing you’re asking them to do?

We want our horses to respond to subtle language but that requires us to be more self aware and mindful of what we’re doing. Miscommunication develops mistrust.

🐴…are they lacking confidence in you or themselves?

Have they had time to think through the problem and reorganise their mind and body?

Have they been over faced or ill prepared which has gradually chipped away at their confidence and trust?

Have training sessions or asks left them feeling better or worse in their mind and body?

Have they built more negative than positive associations with their work or your directions.

🦄 The way your horse feels directly influences their posture and the way they move - your horse’s movement and posture directly influences the way they feel…and so on. 🦄

A feeling is there for a reason, a behaviour occurs because of a feeling, it’s never ‘just because’ and it’s rarely just because ‘they won’t’.

It’s up to us to understand why it appears and change our approach to work on things that mitigate negative emotions while promoting mental and physical confidence and capability.

𝗝𝗼𝗶𝗻 𝗺𝗲 𝗮𝘁 𝗺𝘆 𝗣𝗼𝘀𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲, 𝗠𝘂𝘀𝗰𝗹𝗲 & 𝗠𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝟭-𝗗𝗮𝘆 𝗚𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗶𝗰, 𝗠𝗮𝘆 𝟮𝟰𝘁𝗵, 𝗡𝗮𝗿 𝗡𝗮𝗿 𝗚𝗼𝗼𝗻, 𝗩𝗜𝗖

…𝘁𝗼 𝘀𝗲𝗲 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗵𝗼𝗿𝘀𝗲’𝘀 𝗽𝗵𝘆𝘀𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗹 𝗳𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗯𝘂𝗶𝗹𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗳𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 & 𝗰𝗮𝗽𝗮𝗯𝗶𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁!

A few with horse spots left, plenty of non-horse spots available!

Catering and facility fees included, with a mixture of theory and practical sessions through the day!

Message or let me know below if you’d like the details!